Water Fuel – HHO Gas

HHO is called “Browns Gas” cause it was discovered by Yuri Brown in the 70′s. And this guy is using a 220V outlet to make this, it consumes far more electricity than the gas creates by burning it.

Ok, so I meant Yull Brown and not Yuri. Thanks to my friend who pointed that out for me. And I also meant to say that it consumes more energy in the electricity it takes to seperate the water than you can get from HHO burning it. TANSTAAFL

Ken, what do you think we use to make most of our electricity?

That May be True John, but you also have to remember that there are developing technologies in producing electricity, including more powerful forms of solar cells and Fusion reactors.

Also remember we already have Fission reactors in some parts of the world (Nuclear Power Plants)

the point isn’t that we will still burn Fossil Fuel, the point is that we will burn less.
We do use fossil fuel to generate electricity, but cars consume the bulk of fossil fuel, not coal, or gas power plants

In the second clip, at 1:32, it shows a ‘water’ molecule. I think it looks a little strange, don’t you? I hope that the person who made this clip isn’t the one developing this fuel.

Travis has a really good point. Using hydoelectric plants to produce HHO could work pretty well.

I wanted to post some background information I was able to gather from various sources for others to use for additional research.

I want to premise this by saying that there are more skeptics than believers in this technology. I remain neutral on the subject until I see an article in a Large Publication Such as Nature. There is a publication on the subject in the International Journal of Hydrogen Energy. Here is a little compilation of information I created for Wikipedia, before it was deleted due to the belief that this is actually a hoax. I dont claim to know whether it is or is not a hoax, I am only able to confirm the existance of A GAS created by Hydrogen Technology Applications INC. And that the device which produces the gas is Patented with the US Patent Office.

Aquygen is the commercial trademark name of a gas which is claimed to be made from ordinary water through a patented electrolysis process. Aquygen which is also known as HHO Gas, or Hybrid Hydrogen Oxygen Gas was created by Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc., based in Clearwater, Florida. Hybrid Hydrogen Oxygen (HHO) may be used to replace oxyacetylene for most welding and cutting applications. HHO Gas may be able to be used as a primary fuel source or a fuel additive for gasoline, diesel and aircraft turbine engines. HHO gas is produced using a generator known as the H2O 1500 which is also manufactured by Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc.

== Properties ==

According to HTA Inc., there are many unique and unusual properties that HHO Gas possesses. Below is a list of some of the unique properties claimed by the researchers of HTA Inc.

*HHO Gas proves to be odorless, colorless and lighter than air.
*HHO has a number of distinct features that distinguish it from water vapor, Brown gas and other variants. [http://hytechapps.com/aquygen/science
*In the production of HHO Gas, there is no evaporation process at all, the electric energy used being insufficient for evaporation. This feature alone establishes that the H2O Model 1500 Aquygen Gas Generator produces a new form of water that is gaseous and combustible.
*HHO Gas exhibits a widely varying energy content in BTU, ranging from a relatively cold flame (259°F) in open air to large releases of thermal energy, depending on its use. This is unique to HHO Gas, as all other known fuels have a fixed value of energy content in BTU/scf.
*The variable character of the energy content of HHO Gas is evidence that the gas has a unique structure with a chemical composition including bonds beyond those of valence type.
*HHO Gas does not follow the fundamental PVT law for gases.
*HHO Gas demonstrates an anomalous adhesion to gases, liquids and solids. HHO Gas bonds to gaseous fuels (such as natural gas, magnegas fuel, and others) and liquid fuels (such as diesel, gasoline, liquid petroleum, and others.
*HHO Gas instantaneously melts tungsten, bricks, and other highly refractive substances. In particular, measurements have established the remarkable capability of combusted Aquygen™ Gas to instantaneously reach temperatures over 10,000° F, under which virtually all substances on Earth can be sublimated.
*The measurements reported by [[Ruggero Maria Santilli]] suggest the existence in the HHO gas in stable clusters composed of H and O atoms, their dimers H–O, and their molecules H2, O2 and H2O. According to Santilli, these atomic and molecular bonds cannot entirely be of valence type.
*Santilli describes the creation of the gaseous and combustible HHO from distilled water at atmospheric temperature and pressure via a process structurally different than evaporation or separation, which suggests the existence of a new form of water.
*HHO is described to have the structure (H×H)–O where “×” represents the new magnecular bond and “-” the conventional molecular bond. The transition from the conventional H–O–H configuration to the new (H×H)–O species is explained as being a change of the electric polarization of water caused by the electrolyzer.

== Controversy ==

There is much controversy over the nature of HHO Gas. Many within the scientific community believe that such a gas is a scientific impossibility, or is highly unlikely. Some claim that such a revolutionary gas is nothing more than Pseudoscience or Free Energy Fantasy. There are some who believe that this “new” gas may in fact be old technology being touted as new technology. However further research into the properties of HHO Gas is currently being conducted, and the results may either confirm the findings or to prove that the findings are either inaccurate, or a hoax. The company has asked for independent research into the properties of HHO Gas, but it is not known if any such research has been conducted. Dispite the skepticism, the makers of Aquygen claim that they have engineered new electrolysis technology which turns distilled water H2O into a new and novel gas which has many unique characteristics. They claim that HHO gas is an Oxygen and Hydrogen hybrid known as a “magnecule” in a structure which has yet to be understood. These claims have not yet been verified through multiple independent research studies, however Ruggero Maria Santilli of the Institute for Basic Research has published the results of their original findings in the International Journal of Hydrogen Energy.

== News Coverage ==

The news media has done several stories on HHO Gas. The technology has been featured on CNN, FOX News, and NBC. According to the media the HHO technology is being shown to members of Congress, local government officials, and even NASA. An exhibit demonstrating the technology was displayed at The 2004 Governor’s Conference on the Environment in Kentucky. According to the press release by the Governor’s Conference on the Environment in Kentucky, Hydrogen Technology Applications Inc. has donated several HHO gas generators to Kentucky universities and technical training centers during its introduction program.

== Sources ==

A new gaseous and combustible form of water
International Journal of Hydrogen Energy
Volume 31, Issue 9 , August 2006, Pages 1113-1128

International Journal of Hydrogen Energy- Full Article

Structure and Combustion of Magnegases
Authors: R. M. Santilli, A. K. Aringazin

United States Patent# 6,689,259 Klein; Dennis

United States Patent# 6,866,756 Klein; Dennis

Kentucky Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Cabinet

YouTube- FOX 26 News Report

WAVE Channel 3 News (1)

WAVE Channel 3 News (2)

Hydrogen Technology Applications Inc. – Press Releases

Hydrohen Technology Applications Inc. – Science of Aquygen

The inventor of the process claims his machine runs at 0.70 cents an hour to opperate, while he can run his car 100 miles on just 4 ounces of water…. Now, is that a bad deal?

He’s already building a Hummer for the military which will run in water, and is in negotiations with a US automaker to develop the system for mass production.

5.56 and .45 hey… wait, aren’t those bullet caliburs? I don’t think the oil companies are too worried – it’s nonsense for vehicles. Hydrogen atoms are small and difficult to store – if they leak out, there goes your money… one of the problems facing the “hydrogen economy”.

Why people are always negative denying facts and truth, this leading to destroy them themselves and there kids, family living themselves with no future, ask your selves for how long we using fossil fuel, what’s the result destroying our home Earth.
Now we are Lucky that some good people discovered a perfect way to protect our home Earth,without loosing our way of travailing machine, so what delaying us to use this new tech.HHO Before is to late from destroy completely our home Earth with no return.
This technology has been used by US military for long time saving them selves lots of money, I thing you people awake up and ask the authorities to let us use it, for the sake of our kids. Pollution giving us lots of deformation in our body sickness and lots and lots of other problems if I tell you how many you will be wandering for years!!!

Any updates on HHO? has any of the leading car makers agreed to use this? what about that hummer was it ever built and will we ever see it when it is?

stop being jealous poolman. read. be smart.

If you download videos on the joe cell, especailly the BNE (byron new energy) video, you will see that the joe cell produces browns gas at a fraction of the power required. Though they make references to “orgone” it is really static elecectricity. The static is held because the whole thing operates like a leyden jar. total genius!

if you got a browns gas blow torch i dont think you should aim at your self because thats concentrated…

I would not be so quick to get skeptical of the skeptics here. What the claim is sounds fake to begin with. Name one process that runs at greater than 100% energy efficiency. Most of what we use in our “modern” world have yet to crack 60%. You just can’t take a small summ of electricity to transform water into something that somehow magically produce manny times more power when it reverts back to it’s original form. Also, the claim is that it costs just cents an hour to opperate… so that means it does’nt need much electricity. Then why does it need to run on 220? When was the last time you seen a night lite that needed 220? Yes, it’s cool that electricity can be stored in the form of this HHO (possibly to be used to mix into auto fuels – if it’s not a load of bunk to begin with) but still most of this power will come from coal. This claim that the majority of the us power comes from reknewable??????? Try 10%. The vast majority is good o’l aincient plant’n'animal stew. So far it’s still really hard to not discount this as being just like those goofy plastic “vortex” peices you stuff into the intake of your car that claim miraculous increase in mileage. And besides, if this was real it would have hit the national news something like this: FREE ENERGY DISCOVERED!

Well, one source of “free” electricity is off the alternator in your car, when it is not powering lights, stereo, A/C or charging the battery. So, who cares about the electricity it takes to make the HHO the car is going to run on, as long as the alternator is capable of producing the required amount.

Guys, it’s fake.

I’ve read the paper in Hydrogen Energy and he doesn’t present any convincing evidence to prove that he’s doing anything more than electrolysing water.

I am also unaware of any peer reviewed authentication of his claim that “HHO” gas is not just some mixture of hydrogen and oxygen, exactly what you would expect from hydrolysis.

Even if his claim was true his process cannot violate basic physics i.e. his process cannot create energy. If that was the case he would have invented the perpetual motion machine. Any such conversion process needs more energy than it produces.

I am planning to put up four micro wind generators on my property. I want to play with HHO with my excess electricity. I feel that if I can create more electricity than I use, I can find electricity based alternatives to some of the other fuels I use. It may be naive, but that is my thought.

Sorry for double post, but isn’t it strange to use 220 volt power supply? That’s an enormous amount of energy you’re gonna supply, plus, if he said that HHO is water fuel, how come he never tried this: build a generator purely on water as fuel. It is a scientific impossibility, creating energy, unless you’re God.

Keith you said you have read a great deal on this. Where did you get your reading material?

Ya so what if he’s using 220volt outlet, maybe it makes it easyer to step up. All that matters is the current that is being used. Although it does sound like its getting somthing for nothing, but we’ve seen in the past when somthing appers to violate a phyisical law its may just be an illusion and work mathmatically. But what do I know- nothing, sound too got to be true, hope it is. I guess I’ll just wait and see.

Farmer, I cant find the schematics yore talkin about at http://www.eagle-research.com/index.html

Justin, there’s a big post somewhere in the middle by Eli, with exellent links. One does not work, but do as they say and don’t hesitate and they’ll mail it within minutes.

I must have missed the claim that it is more than 100% effective.. ???

Perhaps it is a hoax, 220V is very convenient for the european market and trying to get a $7000 refound from abroad is difficult.

However it is very interesting, as it does focus some of us on the research. Undoubtedly at the cost of time and for some, face.

For those of us that have access to scientific apparatus to analyse the isomer, samples sound yummy!

Best Of Luck y’all!!!
Peace and Love _Nick.

Gentlemen, don’t get hung up on this 120v or 220v thing. The gas generator that is offered for lease, rent, or out right purchase is used for the most part in an industrial setting for metal cutting. These are marketed as a better alternative to oxy-acetylene. The common power outlet on the wall is rated a 120volts @ 15 amps. You can also find 120volt / 20 amp outlets that look like almost like the standard wall outlet. The catch is that they usually cost about 50 to 60% more.

With that said, your wife’s hair dryer draws 1350 watts of power, or… at 120volts, thats 11.25 amps. The same unit that consumes 1350 watts at 220volts would only draw 6.6 amps. I would suggest that the current draw for the gas generator uses enough power that the normal 15 or 20 amp circuit that is common would not support the power requirement needed. With current and voltage being inversely proportional, at 220 volts the normal branch circuit that would support 30 amps or so, would fit into the range of operating cost per hr as stated in the info that I read on their web site. With power at 10 to 12 cents per kilowatt hour this would yield an operational cost of 50 to 60 cents per hour.

A cars alternater isn’t producing wasted electricity. The heavier the amp draw, the more horsepower required to turn it.

Do all of you experts that say this can not be based on your knowledge of the science think that we know all there is to know about this subject. Based on the negative comments you would think that all there is to be discovered has already been discovered.

We have a very limited view of solar power. The sun is up there at all times. The main expense is puting solar panels in orbit, then send the energy down, with microwaves, to collecter points on earth. Main cost is the setup! No pollution!

Well, why not this, they use the electrolysis machine to make the fuel, then burn the fuel which then turns into water again, then re-harvest the water and reconvert it then re burn it. very little fuel required saving money that way. you could also boil water for steam turbines creating it power.

Strange though this company claims to have filed 39 claims , I cant even find a single one on the US patents site ?????

—> Pratap.

Here are two patents currently registered at the patent office regarding HHO technology. All you really need to do is search.

PATENT 1

PATENT 2

Also, a big FYI to all those critics out there. I purchased a HHO generator for my body shop directly from the supplier. It burns like they say and is the hottest, cleanest flame we have ever used.

I can touch the flame base and not get burned, yet when I turn it to steel, it cuts like butter.

If this is simple electrolysis, then I missed something in science class.

Will the automakers pick this up? Probably not. Look what happened to Tucker in the 50s. Big oil is big money – the biggest. It’s going to take us building the vehicles ourselves to get the world to wake up and follow.

Just because its new, doesn’t mean it isn’t so. In the late 1800s, the U.S. Patent Office issued a statement that “everything that can be invented, has been invented”. You gotta laugh at ignorance.

Enjoy the thread.

By MrHyde on 10.17.06 9:47 am

Hey smarty pants…does 220 run in cars? If he was able to run a car off of it, does it truly consume that much energy? I thought it was 12 volts…..

Concidering the current state of stupidity in the middle east when a sneeze in Iran causes oil prices to go up, can the western world (read governments and populace) afford to allow nations whose current greatest educated are clerics to control their economies? The short and final answer has to be NO!!! Additionally this harbingers the actual ability to do something positive apropos greenhouse gases instead of just talking about it. We are running out of oil and need to do something about replacing it as an energy source. Just think, every vehicle out there could be retrofitted with this technology even if the Automobile manufacturers don’t install it as OEM. I fervantly hope this is not a whim of someones imagination!!!
Regards
Rod Murray

At this point, the main focus of the discussion about this new technology is on the origin of the electricity to power this machine. A thing to remember is that yes, it takes energy to generate the gas but it is shown as a safer and cheaper way to weld. This product does not have to replace all others, but can be an alternative choice. But don’t count it out as a viable fuel for vehicles because it has the possibility of being developed more fully. This is a prototype, the first combustion engines were thought to be too dangerous but look around now.

As a side note, could someone please find the molecular formula and is HHO a name for the gas or a acronym?

OK So I think I’ve done my research on this thing, there are a lot of people complaining about the energy required

Ill clear that up first,
A car battery generates 12-14.5 V but your spark plugs run at an amazing 20000-50000V some use more-the increase is due to the coil so I don’t think the volts are a problem

Depending on type of battery and the condition, how new it is, the battery can put out between 5 and 250 AMP HOURS, the average battery today has a CCA AMP of 500/the AMPS needed to start a car in the cold, THORETICALLY the battery can provide up to 2000 AMPS but I would only recommend this if you want to get rid of a perfectly good battery.

So basically the battery can start the HHO machine
THE QUESTION LEFT FOR ME ARE

1)Can the alternator keep up with it as well of the rest of the cars features?

2)Can the battery start the car and the machine at the same time-with your AC and all the other stuff running or will that be too big of a draw on the battery?

3)When u turn off your car will the HHO/FUEL mixture solidify back to a liquid in your exhaust pipe and cause internal rusting if the vehicle is not used for say 2 months?

4)I understand that the system in the car runs off suction but how much hose can you use between the electrolyses machine and the piston before the unstable HHO will turn back into water?

5)Is this different than the ‘SUPER GAS’ that BROWN talked about?

ALSO, TO RECTIFY THOSE WHO THINK YOU CANNOT OBTAIN ENERGY WITHOUT FOSSIL FUEL…….GO STAND IN A FIELD WHILE THERES A LIGHTING STORM….OR BETTER YET TAKE A MATCH AND SET IT ON YOUR LIVING ROOM COUCH AND WATCH HOW MUCH ENERGY YOU CREATE.

Since I’m on the topic-why haven’t we found a way to harvest the magnificent power a lightning bolt generated…..we’ve got lightning rods-so I know we can catch it-SOME ONES GOT TO FIND OUT HOW TO TAME THAT BEAST.

And as for nuclear energy america thought it was a bad idea when it came out while other countries built many power plants-now where just like, crap, we should have went with nuclear energy…..o well they take too long to build, with our government it would take 15 years minimal to get one functional so basically were putting our eggs in the wind.

IF YOU HAVE ANY INFO ON MY QUESTIONS OR JUST WANT TO TALK MY EMAIL IS APARODOX2003@YAHOO.COM

p.s. SORRY BOUT THE LONG ENTRY POOLMAN

heres the deal if you burn hydrogen with an oxygen caytalist the energy stored in the hydrogen is far greater then the energy that would be used to separate the molicules there for you would gain more in return then what you supply (which is not really true being you are using the abundant sorce waterand converting it to an energy
producing source hydrogen)the feeling
is that most people are sceptic about this is due to the mass feeling that you cant get anything for free if in fact he found away to change the molecular bound of an h2o to an hho then the possiblitys are endless and yes it is very possible at one time cavemen were afraid of fire but heres the real question if this was released what would be the out come lets say over 100,000 plus jobs lost over night why you ask if your not burning gas you wouldnt need a place to stop and get it and thats only the icing on the cake a little tidbit for ya when plastic was discovered it was made in its hardest form during the hight of the steel mill erea it was found if it would have been released in full to the public it would destroy our econmy so it was released over time to allow for econmy to adjust to the change to this day we still have not seen the hardest form of plastic intruduced for public use fact or fiction any thing is possible

p.s if i thought spelling and grammer made my point any better i would use it

Yes ser, Keep paying that $3.00 per gallon! Don’t look for it to come down

why no posts since June? Is it dead?

lets talk about energy. 220 volts is not alot of voltage. in fact coming in few years 09? i think it is auto makers are going to use 42 volts, to reduce the amount of amps being used. this is make wires smaller. truth about wiring and wire size. back in the day there used to be this thing called a distibutor, with wires carrying 50kv to 100kv. shocking isnt it? hybred cars have cables front to rear with just about that much in them. it has proven to be safe so far right? well yes. a wire can carry alot of voltage and still be quite small in diameter, but amperage needs alot of surface area internally. truth being told there will allways be a problem with gas. maybe can recall the gas tank recalls? if not here are a few. late 60′s mustangs, early 70′s pintos and the notorious side saddle chevy gas tanks. gas sucks( you dry).

ok here is more, acetylene is unstable. especially bove 15 psig. very violent, and you can see soot from its comustion. the only unnatural components that are unstable are actylene and the gasses in our air.i dont know about you but i dont dig big clouds of raw fuel in the air. what about lightning? it is true that higher volage is more efficient, that is why industry uses 3 phase (440) depending on how its wired. 220v (2 phase) is more efficient than us dirty americans. we use mostly 110 volts and much more amperage. remember volts dont kill humans. 50kv will almost make ya poop ya self, but on the bright side, if ya did you should live to tell the story. it takes about .1 amp through the heart to kill most humans. but dont worry the paramedics can shock you back to life again (hopefully)

I have done some reading on this technology and would like to visit the manufacturers at some point to see if what they claim is accurate.

I don’t believe, however, that they at any point said it produced more energy than it consumed. Also, even if it does use electricity, we are beginning to find better ways to harvest it from nature (i.e. solar, wind, geo-thermo…). So regardless of how much electrical energy it takes to produce, it would offer a cleaner way to consume the energy (instead of burning fossil fuels) since the exhaust is simply water.

Another thing that I seem to remember from the video is that they did not run the car entirely off of water. The “4 ounces goes 100 miles” was the fact that 4 ounces of water when converted into HHO gas and then added to gasoline would not run out for 100 miles.

And remember, they designed this for use as a replacement for oxy-acetalene…not to run your car.

I’m just puzzled by the number of negative comments about this product. Every high school student has learnt about electrolysis of water into hydrogen and oxygen. Forget about the perpetual motion idea which is a non-starter and focus on what is possible. If the motor unit improves gas milage, is it not worth looking at seriously ??? Here an Australian unit called the Magdrive seems to work if the video is true and the diver is to be believed. All countries are using fossil fuels which are running out very quickly. now if we can use this technology to extend the supplies by supplimenting with hydrogen gas at a cheap rate, shouldn’t we atleast look at the technology ??? Comments have been made that it takes more energy to produce than you get from the burning of the gas. Well why does not one of the Universities test the unit under controlled conditions to see if the unit works or not ??? I saw an article where a Saturn fitted with a hydrogen generator unit ran some tests in Europe and achieved 99 miles/gallon. If this is true surely it would extend our fossil fuel reserves ???

There are a whole lot of people that ask some pretty dumb Q’s does a car run 220 – it can does your house run 9V DC – it can.
It uses more energy to produce HHO – so did recycling, and so did solar, but technology has a way of advancing, and finding solutions. Can you split Hydrogen from water for a fuel cell vehicle – sure – but how to do that efficiently and cheaply – that is a problem being worked on. So to all of the NEY SAYERS that say man cant fly, the human voice cant be transmitted, the human voice cant be recorded, you cant go to the moon,science does not allow for this or that (that science has been proven wrong many times – loopholes) , you cant go 100 miles on 4 oz of HHO – PLEASE CLOSE YOUR MOUTHS, WATCH AND LEARN.. As the real thinkers make progress..
Do you think our SCIENCE is ABSOLUTE and our knowledge of science is not with out errors ..get off the whacky weed and look at all of the science that has been disproved, loopholed and rearranged in the last 20 years, now as in the days of Coepernicus and Galileo and the science of the Titanic Unsinkable.. OUR SCIENCE HAS ERRORS!

Ohms law??? What? v=ir what does that have to do with anything?

wow what a bunch of narrow focused people. when did you all lose your NATURAL sense of curiousity? HHO gas too good to be true—like a small bomb that could destroy a city was in 1935–till Hiroshima…

and all this focus on “getting more out than you put in”
Ha_ like Man had anything at all to do with storing HUGE ammounts of energy in the form of water ie..1 molecule = 1 hydrogen and 2 oxygen atoms combined by the forces of atomic level electrical attraction.
and the most creative thing you can think of to do with it is wash your butt or flush the toilet?

C’mon people quit looking for the perfect safe storage battery and go drink a glass of it!

is it really too hard to believe that using an RF frequency generator (like found in a c.b. radio) tuned to the resonant freq. of water to disrurb the covalent bonding of the atomic level electrical currents holding the the atoms in molecular form while passing a current between to polarized plates wont liberate the stored energy in the water??? I can generate enough rf with a 12v battery to make you sterile (yep, no more babies) or cause blindness.

everything..EVERYTHING has a resonant freq. and when subjected to it comes apart. (opera singer shatters glass with her voice) (sonic blaster breaks up gallstones) … an mri machine uses resonant freqs. to take those fine pictures of the inside of the body (WITHOUT EVEN BREAKING YOU OPEN FIRST!) IF HOWEVER IT WERE SET TO THE WRONG FREQ. it would cause damage to the tissues it is surveying and you would die.

is it so hard too believe, tell a man from 1800 what an ipod is or a microwave ect… this is the USA and we have just begun to invent new ways of doin stuff.

turn off the mass distractor and go MAKE something in the yard or shop! Oh wait here comes the news to tell you what to be AFRAID of today he he he “Blindman”
ps check out ron pauls voting record for the past 10 yrs. and see why they call him “Dr. NO

Eddie…Where did you get the plans to build your generator and instructions to modify your car? What type of engine did you modify? Details please to enlighten the rest of us. I agree with you, give me the plans and i’ll build one myself. If this technology is genuine i’ll build one for every one I know.

I’ve read all (!!!) of the posts…
it is amazing to note that not one (…0 has answered the basic question that seems to lurk there:
how many units of enegry (in watts or BTU equivalents) are needed to CREATE the gas (HHO).
No one has indicated how many BTUs of heat are being RELEASED by burning a unit of gas (say, Oz by weight or grams).
That is the basic question that MAY yeild some more inteligent discussion.
Further, all the commenters have not indicated if there is an understanding how the seperation (‘splitting’ of molecules) process realy works; what is the proper catalyst (steel, other metal or what); what is the process under which a CURRENT will flow in the ‘seperator’ that my use PURE water (not really a conductor a low voltage…).
Just a few question to try to stimulate a more inquiry-based discussion (Science,anyone?…)

you can create a generator that runs off your battery , you may not be able to run your car a full 100% off the gas but you can sure supplement your economy

just a note: who really cares how much energy it takes to produce one mega flop of energy from HHO. the point of this entire system is that if you can put in 4 oz of water and increase your milage another 100 to 150 mile per tank ….. what a great deal!!!! i can assure you that the container that the 4 oz of water came out of did not have Shell, Chevron, Exxon, etc. on it….
BOTTOM LINE: anytime a company makes (for example) 10 Billion dollare in net profit, in one quarter of the year, then a lot of regular folks really got screwed to the wall and the gov. “HELPED”.

Using water as a fuel source for cars is useless (energy wize) because it violates the first law of thermodynamics. so their is no extra energy to be gained by using it. however it would be more cost efficient to a welder, because then you do not need to know the exact energy output you are getting. you are just cost efficiently converting one type of energy to another. I think it would be kick ass to use water as a fuel for cars and whatnot, but right now we don’t have the tech to do it so that every one wins.

First law of thermodynamics,

case and point.

Hey guys. I think folks are always get hung up on anything that “claims” to be greater than 100% energy efficient; which I don’t think the inventors of Aqygen are doing btw. Who cares if something isn’t miraculous, if it’s more efficient to produce than other forms of energy (fossil fuels for example), and less damaging to the environment, that should be good enough right? I don’t think anyone wants to rewrite physics here, I think they have just found something novel (and potentially very useful), like oil and gasoline used to be. If this technology has ANY merit (which it appears to) we can work out the details on how to produce it more efficiently, find additional uses for it, etc. over time. The gasoline/diesel in the cars we drive today wasn’t invented overnight either. Don’t throw a good thing away, just because it isn’t what it could be yet.

Hey, just thought I might provide an example. A hydroelectric dam isn’t 100% efficient and we still use that technology. We simply take advantage of some elements that are in place and produce energy from it. Water evaporation moves clouds inland where it rains, gravity pulls it back towards the ocean where it came from. We simply harvest some of that potential energy on the water’s return journey. We don’t need 100% efficiency, we just need financial feasibility. If it’s feasible to construct a hydroelectric dam and charge for the energy we have a winning situation. All that HHO gas needs is to be financially feasible. If it isn’t (which I think it is) could we pool our collective mental energies and make it feasible? I think we can, and I don’t think there are as many obstacles as people would like to believe. Anyway, I’m done for now. I do like to hear myself talk but even I have my limits.

Felix, your right man.

Since no factual numbers have been stated once since the beginning of this site, let me speak for all of us.

Let us say hypothetically, That ya you guys are right, it takes massive amounts of energy to create the HHO. NOW let us assume that it requires MASSIVE amounts of HHO to propel a vehicle for a significant distance.

I SAY THIS TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU. WHO CARES.

So instead of a 12 gallon gas tank propelling me X amount of miles. I only get to travel half the distance with a similiar amount of HHO, WHO CARES.

Look, I would gladly trade off going to the gas station and spending 80 dollars to fill my gas tank when I could hook up a solar panel in my backyard to produce the energy to electrolyze my water.

Let’s say someone devises a way to run HHO primarily with no gasoline additives, and let’s say I can only drive 50 miles on a charge, that’s fine with me.

The principle and point that no one understands in this argument is this We aren’t trying to create power plants, we aren’t trying to create more energy than we used to create it in the first place. This isn’t perpetual motion, We aren’t trying to be Joseph Newman. We just want to stop harming the environment, and keep alittle coin in our pocket at the same time.

Whoever went off on the 220v tangent is a moron, look if I had to use a Terawatt’s amount of energy to fill up the gastank in my car WHO CARES, save that terawatt comes from a wind farm, or a PV system, or hell even hoover damn. If those meaningless 220volts are created by a renewable energy source, what does it matter.

Ideal situation, your state puts up a renewable energy power plant by your house, so your using electricity from some method that isn’t harming the environment. You then proceed to use that cheap energy albeit large amounts even to create HHO. Then someone fabricates some silly way to actually power a vehicle from that gas. Who would not do it, seriously.

No all of you would.

So instead of pissin and whining about how much electricity it takes to electrolyze water, focus on perfecting it, and making it useful. Because If someone were serious about this, then I think they would like that one fella say, put up some wind turbines in the backyard to electrolyze water for free. And if it was free to begin with, who wouldn’t want to use it to power a vehicle.

If someone can say truthefully, that the combustability properties of HHO are not significant to push the pistons in an ICE engine, or some other hurdle like it burns too hot, and you cannot keep the block cool enough during this process. Then I’ll shut up I’ll retract my entire statement, and end my life.

Because if I can’t dream, then there is no point in living.

Call me a liar

In addition, looking at this kind of sites, they happen to be using the same videos all the time. And they lead to poorly designed scum sites which asks you money for the instructions. Kind of making everything look more like a hoax.

Exactly, look here fella’s we aren’t looking for a be all end all. I could run my car off of Liquid Propane if I wanted too, granted it’s about 10 cents more a gallon than gasoline, and I’ll average 4miles less to the gallon. But I won’t be supporting the Gasoline industry, and I just did alittle research and found out that the by products from Propane aren’t harmful as apposed to other petroleum manufacturing processes.
“Byproducts/Waste

As detailed above, the manufacture of propane produces a variety of byproducts that are economically useful. Actually, it is more accurate to think of these not as byproducts but as co-products, since they are produced along with propane as part of petroleum refinement. These co-products may be in the form of solids, gases, or liquids. Solids (or semisolids) include bitumes, hydrogen sulfide, and carbon dioxide and are sold for fuel purposes. The liquid fractions include crude oil, which is further refined to give a variety of products. These oils vary dramatically in appearance and physical properties like boiling point, density, odor, and viscosity. The different fractions of crude oil are referred to as “light” or “heavy” depending on their density. Light crude is rich in low-boiling and paraffinic hydrocarbons; heavy crudes are higher-boiling and more viscous. They yield a variety of asphalt-like molecules. Many of the co-products of propane production, such as propylene and butylene, are useful in gasoline refining, synthetic rubber manufacture, and the production of petrochemicals.” — http://www.madehow.com/Volume-3/Propane.html

All we are saying is if we can use clean cheap renewable energy sources to generate the electricity to run a car off of hydrogen, why the hell not even if the cons might outweigh the pro’s. We won’t be harming the environment as much and hell it’d be free, you gotta love that =-)

Something we all have to understand it takes time,money,knowledge and drive to work on something that can’t be done (according to most uninformed people). Should I stop working with HHO because others have not seen the evidence first hand? This technology will continue to improve because of the internet allowing knowledge to be spread. I know it works I have built a number of units and have one in my car at the moment. I went from a hho unit the size of a 2 liter bottle down to the size of a d battery heat a big problem working on a way to use the heat to improve the hho production. The process will take alot of close tolerance to form the hho cell. I won’t take up much more of our time but look at it like this how many of us can build a sparkplug to meet the specs. of a store bought unit? It would cost alot for the equipment. Time to set it up and so on. Most likely 1 out of every 200,000 people or more have the money,time,knowledge and drive to do this with hho. Most of these people will be secretive because of the $ signs that flash in with there breakthroughs. This is true of most breakthroughs. Most people who tinker with hho do not fully understand how it works but one of these people will most likely stumble on a more efficient way. If we all stopped because of alot of skeptics, most of the conviences of life would not be all around us. Negative comments will always out way the positive because of the lack of first hand knowledge. To those people who say some comments are to long you will not be able to figure out most things because it takes time to learn. Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFGhZNxdyDY

for those thinking about release of energy (that you can never get more out of a process than what you put into it): may I remind you of the nuclear reactor, and its implications. There is far more release of energy with a detonation than what went into the system, so it isn’t impossible for a process to do that. However, I am skeptical that HHO will work. We’ll see.

As for its use in cars, it does improve milage, but not necessesarily how you’d think. The skeptics are right IMO that you cannot produce enough HHO gas to push a car with the car’s own power; energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted, and the standard ICE is terribly inefficient, about 25% on average. Where the HHO works its magic is in fuel combustion…

Mass market this and our water shortage becomes a crisis as water becomes 10.00/gal

People this was already working in the seventies.
Oil Companies Just dont want to loose revenue from oil sales, would you if that was your product.
Fact is that it is possible to create sufficient amount of HHO to run your car off the alternater, The process they are using to accomplish this is not brute force electrolisys like we were shown in school, This is more the process of fracturing water into its natural elements using frequency, not volts and amps. The correct voltage values and frequecies depending on the cell design is between 700MHZ – 923MHZ. Volts as low as 1.23V and amps as low as 1.2.
Your HHO on demand system uses different frequencies at different throttle position.I have sucessfully managed to run small engines on HHO. I have a 1600 Golf running on HHO, I had to ceramic coat the Pistons as the heat created in the motor kept melting them . And replace the exhaust with Stainless.I also run a more sufficient cooling system. There were also a lot of obstacles to overcome but hey at least it can be done.Dont be sceptical, this works just try it.I use a cell similar to MEYER,(NOT THE SAME)PCB Layouts can be found on the net. Mainly using 555.They work ok, but there are better ways. I am in the process of patenting my cell design at the moment, Once this is done I will share .

I just built and installed an electrolysis cell AOT to make sure I wasn’t talking out my donkey and am happy to report a 33% increase in fuel milage on my 93 Legacy! I have modified plans so that the single cell units are glueless. I will post at a later date once I get everything written down and organized.

You folks injecting HHO into your engine intakes have done nothing but add more oxygen to the fuel / air mixture. Your getting more mileage because the engine is running leaner. You can do this without HHO by reprogramming the fuel maps in your cars computer. Any fool with a modicum of ICE knowledge knows that engines run more efficiently if they are run on a leaner mixture. The problem is HEAT, a lean running engine runs hotter and eventually destroy pistons and valves. The reason most engines don’t run this lean on gas is that the mixture is richened to help cool the pistons and valves. Some manufacturers (such as Honda) have modified their engine control computers to run very lean mixtures at low rpms and loads where the engine can handle the small increase in heat. You can’t do this at high rpms and loads because you will generate too much heat.

Putting HHO in the engine is just like putting in Nitrous Oxide…

And what energy source are you using to generate your HHO? You realize that no matter what the source, it’s more efficient to use that energy directly than to use it to convert water to HHO right?

You never get back the energy from burning HHO that you used to generate it from water. There IS no perpetual motion or cold fusion here folks.

YOU need to wake up!

What about all those web sites selling manuals about installing hho kits to the cars and getting 20% to 50% better gas millage. Is it a scam… There are at least 4 sites with reviews plus the mag driver that sells the kit already built. There has to be something about it. I know of guy locally that bought a manual and put a kit together, then installed it
and claims he’s getting about 7 more miles to the gallon. Is this real… I don’t know , but there are people talking about this and this is not new tech.

Oh, so now you don’t want to talk about vehicle fuel anymore? I realize it’s a great idea for torches (no high pressure bottle / cost) I’m taking issue with your assertion that you can use if for an economically feasible vehicle fuel and produce it on a large enough scale in your backyare off solar.

Sorry to puch a hole in the HHO argument, but the whole idea of making a car run exclusively from water is ridiculous with the technology we have currently. Not to re-iterate the point but you cant make energy out of nothing (duh) and thats essentially what the unconvincing video is trying to sell you. Forget HHO, go make some algae oil biodiesel. Now thats a technology worth going after.

I have been looking into this deeply I have made my self a unit that produces the HHO. The tests I have taken with the unit I made look good. But I have made this from info I recived online. But I would like this to be sold in a store. I hate to buy things online because if you need to get parts or take it back because it dosent work. With the gas prices going up we need to get this plan going.

Will this water work?
Please help me understand

nitous oxide is nothing more than extra oxygen when heated to above 500 degrees it expands to oxygen thust boosting the cylinder capacity like a supercharger or a turbo.
further by leaning the car you would not get this much of a fuel savings
this seams to be pure gas,
questions:
1)does it burn hotter in the cylinders than gas?
2)is the technoligy only to a point where a small amount can be created to augment the gasoline or will it burn to hot as a stand alone ???
adding a gas through the intake would obviuosly make the engine run stronger thus backing off the throttle.thus creating improved milage.
what about that fella that had the vw buggy running on pure hho what is the premise of the water splitter installed at the spark plug. same technoligy as this ??

you all got to be kiddin. if we can produce more power from a drop of hydrogen than the entire u.s. uses. surely we can build a car that is inexpensive and runs on water. check out popular mechanics magazine 05/08

Thank you for your comments Entropy Solution.
As I mentioned before, hydrogen is the answer and I learn with santana what he call the santana effect. I went to visit him and for my surprise, he also show me how his entire house which is powered with hydrogen only and his wife Ford super duty truck drive with over 85%hydrogen and 15% diesel. Its also truth that a small coversion and adjustment need to be made in the engine but nobody can imagine how great that is just because the people are use to accept the so call words of authority for granted. I’m very surprise to see how low is the technical knowledge of most people in many technical environmental forums and how easier is to make everyone walk away from the truth by just claiming to be some kind of authority in the field. The house heater of Mr. Santana was propane Gas before and today is only hydrogen which is producing heating and electricity in abundance for their own private use.
According to Santana, hydrogen is a question of frequency and chain reaction and no the total stupidity writing on every paper and forums by those so call panic soldier. The total conversion cost of the SRX Cadillac was $1875.00 and the Ford Super duty truck was $2345.00, The conversion of his Elegance small Yacht 54′ foot long did cost about $5000.00 so as all of you can see, in the world they’re people who don’t take panic soldier advise but use their own mind. I notice that the cells use by santana were calculated by weight and multiple plasma cells and now he is working on a kit plane like the tiger shark using microturbine with hydrogen only, he will be the first person who ever cross the entire USA flying with hydrogen only without letting anyone know about it.

hi there… bit late to this discussion but hey better than never… i didnt read all of it so sorry if im repeating anything but…

i read somewere that scientists along time ago found this out and calculated an output of 150% + (that would be pleasent)

and all though people keep saying its safe i also heard the same or simalar method is pretty much how we got the hydrogen bomb!.. (bad if you have a car accident but think of the power output!!)

i beleive this technology to be the way forward and that it can be worked on and improved greatly, the reason we arnt using it is cause goverments will struggle taxing water..

any comments about my post are gladly welcomed..

keep smileing everyone :^D

Hay to the guys worried about powering the unit. Why not rig it to start from the battery then )after you mod of course)have it power of of some extra fans(aka mini windmills) that can be set up in the grill of the car. The faster you go the more wind. The longer you drive the more energy. Also could you not us this set up to assist in the recharge of the battery and take the strain of the alternator?

I’m building one for the truck and should be testing this weekend. A comment earlier struck me as completely revolutionary. Whole-house HHO powered with solar and diesel back-up. We could live OFF the grid! The Fascists will still have their taxes and tolls, but the people can access free energy.

Grow your own, People!

I’m both skeptical and optimistic. Yes, I believe that it will take more energy to dissassociate water into HHO than burning HHO will produce. However when the HHO is burned in the combustion chamber ALONG with gasoline, it may result in a much better and more efficient burn increasing gas mileage.

I have yet to see one of these hho generators produce enough gas to keep a cars engine running. Besides, the internal cumbustion engine is very inefficient, just think of all that heat energy being wasted.

Can we run our car with water and gas?
Can anybody tell me is the HHO Gas is real working or is another scam?

With all due respect…
We humans are so skeptical when we see a free sign.

The production of Brown’s gas (HHO)is done by my alternator in my 2000 Honda civic by drawing approx.
15 Amps of current from it (the potential for this is
already built into a cruising vehicle)
Check “Dutchman Enterprises”

I’m currently enjoying 120 MILES/U.S. GAL. of Gasoline!!

Write me back if you want a ride!!!

I’d hate to think of what happens when we use up all our water trying to satisfy all our conveniences.

For all the skeptics out there, my friend built a very primitive HHO system and put it on his 69 VW Bus. It makes Hydrogen on demand and stores nothing. If is very safe. The results? He is getting 37 MPG with a stock 1600cc motor in a 3500lb VW Bus. He is no genious and I have seen it working with my own eyes. This technology is simple, for real and it works. So, for all the “KNOW IT ALL” types out there, sorry…people are using it and getting results. I plan to do this with my wife’s TAHOE and monitor the results.

RM
Surprise, AZ

I think this is completely possible. Back when i was in high school, my science teacher told us that way back whenever(i cant remember exactly when, although it’s a very long time ago), they used to use something called water gas or synthesis gas to power street lighting. This water gas was was composed of water with carbon monoxide dissolved in it ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide ). The water is just simply transporting the dissolved gas and controls how it burns, gases are still combustible in water. It is my belief that HHO gas is similar. You end up with H2 + O2 dissolved in water. H2 is a lot easier to ignite then CO, plus you have excess O2 so when you cut something like metal the it is being oxidized a lot quicker. Also you would only react as much O2 as needed to cut through a given material, possibly explaining it’s variable temperature properties. Just my 2 cents

I used a water torch for several years back in the mid ’80s for soldering gold… The unit used distilled water and ran on 110v… It produced an outstanding tiny fine flame…

Hey V, if you separate H & O from water and then burn it, guess what you get… water.
It’s the only thing I know of that renews itself…

V said,
8-21-2008 in 18:36:27 at 68.37.149.121
I’d hate to think of what happens when we use up all our water trying to satisfy all our conveniences.

OH WOW! I do love reading this stuff. I can tell there’s a lot of formal chem and engineering training in this house. As for the guy with the Tahoe, I would like to know what your SUV’s fuel/computer system thinks about this little project. I’m guessing it will be a ton of fun. I just have one question. In this country, OH SO FULL of people looking to make a buck. Don’t you think that someone would be getting really, really rich and getting some real press if this was a real, practical piece of technology. Are there any mass produced aftermarket systems out there? Come on! And let me guess, the moon landing was filmed in Hollywood too, right?

iwant to no where i can get these systems in australia for cars to run on water

“ken”"That does not really matter if it is less efficient and burns more energy — electricity is a renewable resource, whereas natural gas is not.”

Where do you get natural gas is not a renewable energy. Natural gas means it naturally renews itself which is why more people are having their cars converted over to natural gas. Fosil fuels such as oil and many others are none renewable resources. Water is a natural resource which again also renews itself from glaciers and ice caps melting away from us burning these fosil fuels. How it renews it self other wise I personally do not know the scientific answer. How ever natural gas is renewable fosil fuels which is what you should have said are not. Atleast we have not found a way to reproduce these fosil fuels as of yet nor would we really want to.

hho sestem one car 3000cc prise?

Interesting Factoid for all the nay sayers and the ones who think that if it can be done, the government would have already imposed a regulation requiring it in all cars and other applications because they have the EPA and are odviously concerned about the environment…..The 1960 Ford Falcon got better gas mileage than the 2012 Ford Fusion does!!!!! That is a 52 year span, consider for a moment how other technologies have advanced….Computers in the 1960′s took up the square footage equilivant of most of our houses and now (almost 2012) they fit in the palm of our hand. Why you ask has all other technology advanced and not our MPG’s? Computers that are affordable and fit in your hand are good for the government, for their usage as well as any future plans they may have for tracking the population (you just think you can turn off your GPS). Cars that get better fuel mileage are not better for the government. What reason would they have for fighting useless wars and controlling the flow of our money back into their pockets if we didn’t need the gas pump? Just a thought to provoke intelligent speculation among the population!

I am looking to find a complex formula on how much water it takes to power a a vehicle.

came back to read more,thank you.
have three yr’s under my belt on HHO & 3 cells in 3 differant vehicals a 98 toyota camray, 95 ford 3/4 ton with the 300/6cyl, & a 2001 ranger v6 4dr with 280k+.
All 3 have my own designed wet cell’s, but looking to up grade to 3 new wet cells of my design that roll off a ton of gas from 1 amp all the way up to 55 amp 12v.
We Will See
kngrtr

First of all!!!! That little thing at the top of this page about HHo being a scam,,,Is Bullcrap !!! And whoever put that in there loves big oil!!! This you can be sure!! HHo is REAL!! I don’t just mean using it to get better gas mileage”"”"  That it just a deterance,To keep people beliving you have to keep buying gas too  !!  My freinds,You can”"”" Make units that will give you all the fuel your car,Truck,Mower,Weed Eater,Chainsaw,Go-Cart,Generate Power,Model Cox Airplane Eng.For Hobbyist,Any combustion eng,Can run on Hydrogen gas!! And !!!!!!! If built correctly…. It can never,Yes That’s right ,,Never have a chance to blow up expload,Catch fire,In any way,Whatsoever!!!! No possable way !! None!! Natta!! Not even one little bit of chance…  Bet the oil,And car companies won’t tell you about that!!!  There is a lot of companies,Big buissness,And even Gov. That don’t want this !!! I got news for them!!!   TOO LATE… It’s already here!! ONLY This!!!! Will fix,Our Economy,And our deficet,,Yea I know!! I can spell very well!! So what…So anyway, What I’m telling you is real,It’s not a scam,Or Bullcrap… This type of fuel is the most abundet element in the universe!!!   And it’s free!!! Some people,,,,And some buissnesses,And one’s with power over us little people in this time,Are afraid of change!!! But I truley belive that the majority,Of them are not afraid,They just don’t want to lose,That money grip they have on the people of this good world!! It’s  time we move on!! There is so many other things you and your family can do with the extra funds, that  have to be used out of your income,Just to get to  work,Go to get food,Car parts,movies,Your hair cut,Going to the park,Boating,Vacations,Just going over to your freinds house,Helping him or her with something.People!! This progress,That has been made  in HHo,Is only going to create,Millions Yes!! Millions of new high paying jobs ,And I mean fast!!! Damm Fast..I’m not making any money for telling you this stuff!! No one own’s this stuff!! And if anyone was to try to  tell you other wise.They are a lier..Plain and simple..I don’t care who they are!!  This is our chance to move on in life,If we never advanced in life,and moved forward,We would still be running from dinosours to keep from being it’s lunch today!!! It’s cheap to build,It would be yours,And yours alone!!,To run your cars,ect,even generate all the electrical power your house hold would ever need , Ever!! It runs on water!!! Yea!!! water! And you don’t need rip off artist of all kinds,To sell you any,Heck,Just make a line out of your dicth,Use a make shif collector,For simple ,God givin ,RAIN.. This is the big one they don’t want you knowing about!!! This really,Ticks them off for (You) To) Know)!!!   When correctly built,Not only is it the most safe fuel to use,In order  to keep you and your loved ones,safe,Allways!! But also,,You could drive from,Maine to Longbeach Ca, On aprox,One and a half gallons of water!! This is our gift from above,That we all should be happy!!! Yall have a nice day,,By By